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Qt-interest Archive, June 2007
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available

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Message 1 in thread

On Thursday 31 May 2007 11:30, zeAtShuttle wrote:
> hi,
>
> >>To enable OpenGL ES in Qtopia Core you need to have the headers
> >> GLES/gl.h, GLES/egl.h and libraries libGLES, libEGL preinstalled on your
> >> system.
>
> thanks!
>
>
> - can you say where to find libGLES & libEGL, where, in which folder
> they should be copied (installed)?

They can placed anywhere you want but you might need to adjust your mkspecs 
accordingly. If you're configuring with -embedded generic you need to modify  
QMAKE_INCDIR_OPENGL, QMAKE_LIBDIR_OPENGL and QMAKE_LIBS_OPENGL in 
mkspecs/qws/linux-generic-g++/qmake.conf. 

The configure script tells you this if you configured with -opengl and the 
opengl test fails.

If you need to modify any of the header files, that should be part of your 
OpenGL ES documentation.

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 2 in thread

>> ok, thanks,
>> just this then -  can you say where to find(download) libGLES & libEGL?
>
> No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation (Mesa, Hybrid, ATI,
> PowerVR, etc...) you then need to contact one of these to get the
> implementation. If you choose Mesa, try to find information on mesa3d.org. 
> If
> you choose Hybrid, try www.hybrid.fi, etc.



wish we knew at least some basics about QWS and OpenGL ES, like :

"drivers are NOT made for "platforms" like x86, PowerPC, ARM.."
"they are always made for WINDOWING SYSTEMS, like Win CE, X11..."

"i've never heard about QWS drivers ?"
"do we really ask ATI about OpenGL ES drivers for QWS on Linux?"


...BUT,
i did ask ALL of them, anyway...

they did not have any idea what i was
talking about... neither did I




=================================================


>>"No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation "



oh dear, we choose ALL of the implementations, but will be happy
with ANY that actually EXISTS, can you confirm that ANY of those
work with QWS ?

and PLEASE give us some link where we can see what are you
talking about...  we searched Mesa and Hybrid for hours?!



Hمvard, dude?





--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 3 in thread

Up to Qt 4.3 now. QtScript is awesome, I can think of tons of things  
I can do now...

Any chance the commercial licensees will see the QSA Workbench code  
in the near future?

Richard


--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 4 in thread

Oh, Heaven have pity.  I haven't been following this thread, but I'll  
give it a shot.

Let's start from first principles:

OpenGL is a software interface to graphics hardware.

The EXACT 3D hardware and it's driver comprise what everyone refers  
to as the "implementation". There are some implementations that do  
not require hardware, Mesa is the only game in town for Linux. Linux  
is free however only if your time is worthless.... which I think you  
are discovering now ;-)

The question of an OpenGL driver for QWS is absurd, which is why  
people are giving you short " go away" type answers.

The driver is for the hardware, and is written for a particular  
operating system and device.

You have a device? You have a Linux OS for it? You have some 3D chip  
in it? Ask the vendor of the 3D chip, or the vendor of the device for  
the OpenGL driver and for the OpenGL SDK FOR THAT DEVICE AND CHIP  
SET. Do not mention Qt in any way shape or form, it will only muddy  
the waters.

Qt or ANY other framework requires that you've done this homework up  
front if you want to use OpenGL.

If the device you are targeting does not have a 3D chip in it, you  
are hosed. You will have to adapt Mesa to meet your needs. I'm going  
out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the only way you are going to be  
able to do that is to find someone who knows how to do this, fly them  
to your site and pay them for a days work. There is no step by step  
guide for this... you have to understand how all this works at a more  
fundamental level, and then engineer it for yourself. (I'll get  
flamed for this... but...) Welcome to Linux. ;-)

Windows and Mac OS X (my two platforms) are EXACTLY  the same way.  
That's right, EXACTLY. We must have driver, and we must have an SDK.  
Qt has NOTHING to do with it. There are 10,001 ways to use OpenGL, Qt  
is #1,262.

On the Mac, Apple provides the driver and the SDK. On Windows,  
Microsoft (usually) provides the SDK, and the hardware vendors (ATI,  
NVidia, etc.) provide the drivers (again, usually).

I hope this helps clarify things for you somewhat.

Let me say this one other way... You need an implementation for your  
device, not an implementation for QWS. If an implementation is not  
available for your device, you will have to emulate it with Mesa...  
and this is so totally the wrong place to be looking for help with  
that. (Try some OpenGL specific lists).

God speed.

Richard S. Wright Jr.



On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:01 PM, zeAtShuttle wrote:

>>> ok, thanks,
>>> just this then -  can you say where to find(download) libGLES &  
>>> libEGL?
>>
>> No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation (Mesa,  
>> Hybrid, ATI,
>> PowerVR, etc...) you then need to contact one of these to get the
>> implementation. If you choose Mesa, try to find information on  
>> mesa3d.org. If
>> you choose Hybrid, try www.hybrid.fi, etc.
>
>
>
> wish we knew at least some basics about QWS and OpenGL ES, like :
>
> "drivers are NOT made for "platforms" like x86, PowerPC, ARM.."
> "they are always made for WINDOWING SYSTEMS, like Win CE, X11..."
>
> "i've never heard about QWS drivers ?"
> "do we really ask ATI about OpenGL ES drivers for QWS on Linux?"
>
>
> ...BUT,
> i did ask ALL of them, anyway...
>
> they did not have any idea what i was
> talking about... neither did I
>
>
>
>
> =================================================
>
>
>>> "No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation "
>
>
>
> oh dear, we choose ALL of the implementations, but will be happy
> with ANY that actually EXISTS, can you confirm that ANY of those
> work with QWS ?
>
> and PLEASE give us some link where we can see what are you
> talking about...  we searched Mesa and Hybrid for hours?!
>
>
>
> HÙvard, dude?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx  
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
>

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 5 in thread

T H A N K  Y O U !!


thats, kind of, what i thought, but many "half-answers" and poor 
documentation
led me to HOPE otherwise...


cheers,
zelko


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard S. Wright Jr." <opengl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "zeAtShuttle" <zelco@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "qt-interest" <qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available


Oh, Heaven have pity.  I haven't been following this thread, but I'll
give it a shot.

Let's start from first principles:

OpenGL is a software interface to graphics hardware.

The EXACT 3D hardware and it's driver comprise what everyone refers
to as the "implementation". There are some implementations that do
not require hardware, Mesa is the only game in town for Linux. Linux
is free however only if your time is worthless.... which I think you
are discovering now ;-)

The question of an OpenGL driver for QWS is absurd, which is why
people are giving you short " go away" type answers.

The driver is for the hardware, and is written for a particular
operating system and device.

You have a device? You have a Linux OS for it? You have some 3D chip
in it? Ask the vendor of the 3D chip, or the vendor of the device for
the OpenGL driver and for the OpenGL SDK FOR THAT DEVICE AND CHIP
SET. Do not mention Qt in any way shape or form, it will only muddy
the waters.

Qt or ANY other framework requires that you've done this homework up
front if you want to use OpenGL.

If the device you are targeting does not have a 3D chip in it, you
are hosed. You will have to adapt Mesa to meet your needs. I'm going
out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the only way you are going to be
able to do that is to find someone who knows how to do this, fly them
to your site and pay them for a days work. There is no step by step
guide for this... you have to understand how all this works at a more
fundamental level, and then engineer it for yourself. (I'll get
flamed for this... but...) Welcome to Linux. ;-)

Windows and Mac OS X (my two platforms) are EXACTLY  the same way.
That's right, EXACTLY. We must have driver, and we must have an SDK.
Qt has NOTHING to do with it. There are 10,001 ways to use OpenGL, Qt
is #1,262.

On the Mac, Apple provides the driver and the SDK. On Windows,
Microsoft (usually) provides the SDK, and the hardware vendors (ATI,
NVidia, etc.) provide the drivers (again, usually).

I hope this helps clarify things for you somewhat.

Let me say this one other way... You need an implementation for your
device, not an implementation for QWS. If an implementation is not
available for your device, you will have to emulate it with Mesa...
and this is so totally the wrong place to be looking for help with
that. (Try some OpenGL specific lists).

God speed.

Richard S. Wright Jr.



On Jun 1, 2007, at 11:01 PM, zeAtShuttle wrote:

>>> ok, thanks,
>>> just this then -  can you say where to find(download) libGLES &  libEGL?
>>
>> No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation (Mesa,  Hybrid, 
>> ATI,
>> PowerVR, etc...) you then need to contact one of these to get the
>> implementation. If you choose Mesa, try to find information on 
>> mesa3d.org. If
>> you choose Hybrid, try www.hybrid.fi, etc.
>
>
>
> wish we knew at least some basics about QWS and OpenGL ES, like :
>
> "drivers are NOT made for "platforms" like x86, PowerPC, ARM.."
> "they are always made for WINDOWING SYSTEMS, like Win CE, X11..."
>
> "i've never heard about QWS drivers ?"
> "do we really ask ATI about OpenGL ES drivers for QWS on Linux?"
>
>
> ...BUT,
> i did ask ALL of them, anyway...
>
> they did not have any idea what i was
> talking about... neither did I
>
>
>
>
> =================================================
>
>
>>> "No I can't. You first need to choose an implementation "
>
>
>
> oh dear, we choose ALL of the implementations, but will be happy
> with ANY that actually EXISTS, can you confirm that ANY of those
> work with QWS ?
>
> and PLEASE give us some link where we can see what are you
> talking about...  we searched Mesa and Hybrid for hours?!
>
>
>
> HÙvard, dude?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx  with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
>



-- 
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 6 in thread

Hi,

zeAtShuttle wrote:
> thats, kind of, what i thought, but many "half-answers" and poor 
> documentation
> led me to HOPE otherwise...

The documentation is not necessarily poor. You were just looking at the wrong 
place. OpenGL is documented at the operating system or "platform" level. Qt or 
QWS has nothing to do with it.

As for the "half-answers", that's not fair to the many people that spent lots 
of time trying to answer your questions.

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 7 in thread

> As for the "half-answers", that's not fair to the many people that spent 
> lots of time trying to answer your questions.


im sorry..

but, did you ever got lost and asked for directions...
just to be told to go wrong way?


if you said - "you need to make your own driver", i'd say thanks,
but you said - "you only need to have OpenGL ES preinstalled"
and it took me TWO months to realize -

"preinstalled" = "make your own driver"



cheers,
zelko



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dimitri" <dimitri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available


> Hi,
>
> zeAtShuttle wrote:
>> thats, kind of, what i thought, but many "half-answers" and poor 
>> documentation
>> led me to HOPE otherwise...
>
> The documentation is not necessarily poor. You were just looking at the 
> wrong place. OpenGL is documented at the operating system or "platform" 
> level. Qt or QWS has nothing to do with it.
>
> As for the "half-answers", that's not fair to the many people that spent 
> lots of time trying to answer your questions.
>
> --
> Dimitri
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 
> 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
>
> 

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 8 in thread

Hi,

> im sorry..
> 
> but, did you ever got lost and asked for directions...
> just to be told to go wrong way?

I don't think You have not been told to go the wrong way. The answers might 
have not been clear to you, but they were not wrong.

In any case, people on this mailing list are doing their best to answer. They 
do certainly not misguide you purpose.

> if you said - "you need to make your own driver", i'd say thanks,
> but you said - "you only need to have OpenGL ES preinstalled"
> and it took me TWO months to realize -
> 
> "preinstalled" = "make your own driver"

To make things clear:

You do not need to "make your own driver".

Instead:
* You're expected to *find* an existing implementation of OpenGL ES for you 
target platform, not *write* one. That may include a driver (or not), 
libraries, headers, etc.
* You need to install that implementation of OpenGL ES (on your build host and 
your target host).
* Actually you might find vendors that distribute a ready-made platform and 
associated tools, with OpenGL ES pre-installed, the same way you can find 
vendors that distribute a ready-made Windows or Linux platform, with OpenGL 
pre-installed.
* Only if OpenGL ES does not exist for your platform, would you maybe have to 
"make your own driver". But then it's probably better to change for another 
platform, unless you're precisely in the business of making OpenGL ES 
implementations.

I hope this makes things clearer to you.

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 9 in thread

>You're expected to *find* an existing implementation of OpenGL ES for you 
> target platform, not *write* one. That may include a driver (or not), 
> libraries, headers, etc.



there you go again? what are you doing?

why are you telling people to *FIND* something that DOES NOT exist ?!?

- give us a LINK !
- dont ask me again whats my platform - ANY PLATFORM!
- just give us a LINK !!



>>"expected to *find*"

what the hell is that all about, if something EXIST it should not be 
too hard to point the web-page where we can download it, sheesh!?!




>>"That may include a driver (or not)..."

dont confuse us anymore, "implementation" = "driver" 



>> You need to install that implementation of OpenGL ES
>> (on your build host and  your target host)."



to install WHAT? ...it DOES NOT EXIST !?

not for QWS, not for any TARGET nor for any DESKTOP/build platform... NOT ANY

you would surely, by now, give us that link, if it exist, would you?



Dimitri, dude?










----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dimitri" <dimitri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available


> Hi,
> 
>> im sorry..
>> 
>> but, did you ever got lost and asked for directions...
>> just to be told to go wrong way?
> 
> I don't think You have not been told to go the wrong way. The answers might 
> have not been clear to you, but they were not wrong.
> 
> In any case, people on this mailing list are doing their best to answer. They 
> do certainly not misguide you purpose.
> 
>> if you said - "you need to make your own driver", i'd say thanks,
>> but you said - "you only need to have OpenGL ES preinstalled"
>> and it took me TWO months to realize -
>> 
>> "preinstalled" = "make your own driver"
> 
> To make things clear:
> 
> You do not need to "make your own driver".
> 
> Instead:
> * You're expected to *find* an existing implementation of OpenGL ES for you 
> target platform, not *write* one. That may include a driver (or not), 
> libraries, headers, etc.
> * You need to install that implementation of OpenGL ES (on your build host and 
> your target host).
> * Actually you might find vendors that distribute a ready-made platform and 
> associated tools, with OpenGL ES pre-installed, the same way you can find 
> vendors that distribute a ready-made Windows or Linux platform, with OpenGL 
> pre-installed.
> * Only if OpenGL ES does not exist for your platform, would you maybe have to 
> "make your own driver". But then it's probably better to change for another 
> platform, unless you're precisely in the business of making OpenGL ES 
> implementations.
> 
> I hope this makes things clearer to you.
> 
> --
> Dimitri
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/829 - Release Date: 6/2/2007 5:26 PM
>

Message 10 in thread

zeAtShuttle schrieb:
> ...
> Dimitri, dude?

Hey! Calm down a bit! Your tone is very rude.

Dimitri gave you very *precise* instructions on what to do. Even I would 
know what to do, and guess what, I'm not even in your business, I have 
no idea what you are trying to implement (some OpenGL related 
application obviously). But that does not matter...

Is this so hard to understand: "Find a driver for OpenGL for your 
platform/device combination". Have you ever heard of "Google"? Can't you 
find the web page of your graphic card vendor? Do you actually *know* 
which graphic card you are using?

How would Dimitri know of a link if you say "ANY platform"? Is he to 
guess what graphic card (of which hardware vendor) you are using?

Cool down, then think again, then use Google for instance.

Have a nice day, Oliver

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 11 in thread

whats it with you kids?


it is silly to say something like this:
>>"Dimitri gave you very *precise* instructions on what to do." 

and then admit this:
>>"I'm not even in your business, I have "
>> "no idea what you are trying to implement (some OpenGL related "
>> "application obviously). But that does not matter..."



Knoll, it DOES matter, 
actually thats what is "it" ALL about:

- do not comment unless you know what are you talking about 
- do not try to answer the questions that you do not know answer to 

yes, you may have a go and try to guess, but make it CLEAR that you are 
*guessing*, ESPECIALLY if you do not have any experience in exercising
your own advice... does that make any sense?


actually, there it is, right there... you've been FOOLED!

you *ONLY THINK* there are ANY instructions that can lead you
to ANYTHING *usable*, and "precise" is so very wrong word
to describe anything about it...  anyway, thank you for 
demonstarting my point!

- you expect of your provider of "very *precise* instructions"
to have at least tried it himself... i mean, how "precise" istructions 
can be provided without actuall knowledge about it? 

"did you ever got lost and asked for directions...
just to be told to go wrong way?"




>>Have you ever heard of "Google"? Can't you 
>>find the web page of your graphic card vendor? 
>>Do you actually *know* which graphic card you are using?



heheee,
go ahead, try to do IT yourself... good luck with "Googling" 


..tho, you may want to read this first :
===================================================
Oh, Heaven have pity.  I haven't been following this thread, but I'll
give it a shot.

Let's start from first principles:

OpenGL is a software interface to graphics hardware.

The EXACT 3D hardware and it's driver comprise what everyone refers
to as the "implementation". There are some implementations that do
not require hardware, Mesa is the only game in town for Linux. Linux
is free however only if your time is worthless.... which I think you
are discovering now ;-)

The question of an OpenGL driver for QWS is absurd, which is why
people are giving you short " go away" type answers.

The driver is for the hardware, and is written for a particular
operating system and device.

You have a device? You have a Linux OS for it? You have some 3D chip
in it? Ask the vendor of the 3D chip, or the vendor of the device for
the OpenGL driver and for the OpenGL SDK FOR THAT DEVICE AND CHIP
SET. Do not mention Qt in any way shape or form, it will only muddy
the waters.

Qt or ANY other framework requires that you've done this homework up
front if you want to use OpenGL.

If the device you are targeting does not have a 3D chip in it, you
are hosed. You will have to adapt Mesa to meet your needs. I'm going
out on a limb here, but I'm guessing the only way you are going to be
able to do that is to find someone who knows how to do this, fly them
to your site and pay them for a days work. There is no step by step
guide for this... you have to understand how all this works at a more
fundamental level, and then engineer it for yourself. (I'll get
flamed for this... but...) Welcome to Linux. ;-)

Windows and Mac OS X (my two platforms) are EXACTLY  the same way.
That's right, EXACTLY. We must have driver, and we must have an SDK.
Qt has NOTHING to do with it. There are 10,001 ways to use OpenGL, Qt
is #1,262.

On the Mac, Apple provides the driver and the SDK. On Windows,
Microsoft (usually) provides the SDK, and the hardware vendors (ATI,
NVidia, etc.) provide the drivers (again, usually).

I hope this helps clarify things for you somewhat.

Let me say this one other way... You need an implementation for your
device, not an implementation for QWS. If an implementation is not
available for your device, you will have to emulate it with Mesa...
and this is so totally the wrong place to be looking for help with
that. (Try some OpenGL specific lists).



-------------
-------------


hi,

thanks again for making it all clear...


i'll just comment this bit then:
>>You have a device? You have a Linux OS for it? You have some 3D chip  in
>>it? Ask the vendor of the 3D chip, or the vendor of the device for  the
>>OpenGL driver and for the OpenGL SDK FOR THAT DEVICE AND CHIP  SET. Do not
>>mention Qt in any way shape or form, it will only muddy  the waters.


hehee, muddy waters indeed...

heres is what was my reasoning -
our choice of target devices is *wide open*, we 1st wanted to
choose SDK, and tools that will give us greatest *flexibility* -
"write once, run everywhere"

Qtopia looks like good candidate, and is overall what we would
prefer to use whether targeting embedded or desktop platform,
whichever OS...

my main problem is that we do not want to make our development
environment on particular device - we do not want to compile and
test on some 333MHz hardware with 5'' screen, we want to use
our fast desktop machines like everybody, i guess, use Qtopia for
development..

and there are great tools just for that, we have the whole device
EMULATED, all with plastic casing, little buttons and particular
LCD screen, even touch-screen... and Qtopia has its OWN
drivers that do all that just fine *directly* on framebuffer with
QWS or *emulated* in X11(Winodws, Mac X)

in other words, we do not have to have any PARTICULAR
device but we know our software will work as long as our
TARGET device has FRAMEBUFFER - *generic* drivers
(until OpenGL ES feature)


to summarise,
we were hoping there is a way for TARGET platform
that Qtopia can utilise somehow -  >>"OpenGL driver and for
the OpenGL SDK FOR THAT DEVICE AND CHIP  SET."

and are still surprised how there is not any WRAPPER
or EMULATED driver for Qtopia, like Hybrid has for
Windows and like PowerVR has for both Windows
and Linux DEVELOPMENT/Desktop platform...

if Trolltech tells us to use *other* SDK, than we do not need
Qtopia anymore for OpenGL ES at all?

if there is no way to *develop* (compile & run) OpenGL ES
with Qtopia on desktop system (emulated, wrapper)
 and
if there is no way to use *manufacturer provided* OpenGL ES
drivers with QWS on target/embedded system...

whats the point of OpenGL ES "support" in Qtopia?




cheers,
zelko

Miniature, Linux based OpenGL development system
http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html











----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Till Oliver Knoll" <oliver.knoll@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Qt Interest List" <qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available


> zeAtShuttle schrieb:
>> ...
>> Dimitri, dude?
> 
> Hey! Calm down a bit! Your tone is very rude.
> 
> Dimitri gave you very *precise* instructions on what to do. Even I would 
> know what to do, and guess what, I'm not even in your business, I have 
> no idea what you are trying to implement (some OpenGL related 
> application obviously). But that does not matter...
> 
> Is this so hard to understand: "Find a driver for OpenGL for your 
> platform/device combination". Have you ever heard of "Google"? Can't you 
> find the web page of your graphic card vendor? Do you actually *know* 
> which graphic card you are using?
> 
> How would Dimitri know of a link if you say "ANY platform"? Is he to 
> guess what graphic card (of which hardware vendor) you are using?
> 
> Cool down, then think again, then use Google for instance.
> 
> Have a nice day, Oliver
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
> 
>

Message 12 in thread

Hi,

STOP TROLLING!

On Monday 04 June 2007, zeAtShuttle wrote:
> - you expect of your provider of "very *precise* instructions"
> to have at least tried it himself... i mean, how "precise" istructions
> can be provided without actuall knowledge about it?

Did you follow the instructions? What *exactly* did you try? What *exactly* 
was the outcome?

So far you made several mistakes:

a) You did not change the subject. So people on this list who might know the 
answer don't know they are supposed to look into your mail.

b) You posted on the wrong list - Dimitri told you so. As far as I can see 
you still do not seem to have asked on the list for Qt/embedded.

c) You expect us to solve your problem: if we answer anything on this list 
it happens in our free time. Ie. we go far enough to give you some hints 
and expect you to follow them. We are not here to spoon-feed you. Hell, you 
are supposed to be a programmer, not a cry-baby!

d) You are rude. No excuse for this. Behave or go away.


In short:

If you expect to be spoon fed: you are in the wrong business. Become a 
professional food-taster or something.

If you expect commercial grade support: pay for it! From my own experience I 
can tell you that Trolltechs support is worth every penny you pay for it - 
they take the time to read your stuff, they give it to the experts and they 
try it out before giving you the solution.

If you just want to troll around: get lost.

> "did you ever got lost and asked for directions...
> just to be told to go wrong way?"

Yep, sent me straight to a crowded place where I had hundreds of people to 
ask. Much better than those guys who just ignored me. Or worse: those guys 
who think that screaming at you makes you magically remember a route 
through a city you don't know either... ;-)



	Konrad

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Message 13 in thread

Hi,

> />You're expected to *find* an existing implementation of OpenGL ES for you
>  > target platform, not *write* one. That may include a driver (or not),
>  > libraries, headers, etc./
>  
>  
> there you go again? what are you doing?

I'm trying to help, even though I'd prefer you keep a professional and gentle 
tone, as everyone else on this mailing list.

> why are you telling people to *FIND* something that DOES NOT exist ?!?
> [...]

I'll try to clarify better. Please first read this:
	http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/qtopiacore-opengl.html

 From the documentation, it's true that it does take some effort to integrate 
OpenGL ES. However, this does not *necessarily* mean you have to write a 
*full* OpenGL ES implementation. The OpenGL ES specification includes :
- EGL bindings to the platform window system
- Common/Common-Lite renderer
So you may have to provide an EGL implementation, but not necessarily the 
renderer. Additionally, what I gather from the information I've seen so far is 
that Qtopia Core 4.3 does ship with EGL bindings for the Hybrid OpenGL ES 
implementation. From the above link:
	The simple integration approach use a ready-made EGL
	implementation, only requiring a simple custom interface
	between the EGL interface and QWS. To illustrate, the
	current release of Qtopia Core provides a simple example
	interface integrating the "Vanilla" EGL implementation
	from Hybrid Graphics Ltd. with QWS.
Using the Hybrid implementation currently looks like the path of least effort 
to test OpenGL ES support with Qtopia Core.


So if you're interested in "simple integration", as already explained by 
HÃvard Wall:
	Qtopia Core on x86 you might want to take a look at Mesa or Hybrid.
	I've been thinking on writing a pre-integrated driver for Mesa for
	Qtopia Core, but that work hasn't even been started yet).
I understand the Hybrid product is the one that has been integrated and tested 
by Trolltech in-house, so that's probably the one that will require the least 
effort from you. I also understand the Hybrid product is free for non 
commercial use. Here is a link to the download page of Hybrid:
	http://www.hybrid.fi/main/download/tools.php


Some possible reasons why you do not get the answers you want:

* I think that part of the the problem is that you expect a link to download a 
single open source package for all platforms. It looks like OpenGL ES 
currently does not exist in that form. There's no single package, or packages 
depend on the platform, or packages are not necessarily open source and freely 
available to you.

* You expect a very simple answer to a question that is inherently complex. 
OpenGL ES is a new standard, the world of embedded systems is still more 
complex than the world of desktop systems you seem more familiar with. As a 
result, you won't find anything as easy to use as Visual Studio for the 
desktop PC.

* Maybe none of the subscribers to *this* mailing list are genuinely 
interested. Trolltech engineers in general and especially those working on 
Qtopia Core do not necessarily monitor this mailing list. As already 
explained, try these mailing list / forums instead:
	http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-embedded-interest/
	http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/
	http://www.khronos.org/message_boards/
There's no guarantee you'll get an answer though. People answer questions time 
permitting.

* Last but not least, you're not keeping this professional and gentle tone 
that people usually appreciate. As anyone else, subscribers to this mailing 
list are inclined to help people they appreciate.


I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I do not work on Qtopia Core or OpenGL ES 
support in Qtopia Core.

--
 [ signature omitted ] 

Message 14 in thread

>> Is this so hard to understand: "Find a driver for OpenGL for your 
>> platform/device combination". 


until you get some idea, it need to be clarified: 

* OpenGL ES drivers for QWS on Linux, 
not MY platform/device combination, 
but ANY, any that will work with QWS 


so, yes, 
since it does NOT exist its even hard to understand why would
anyone suggest to *try* to find it ?!



>> How would Dimitri know of a link if you say "ANY platform"? Is he to 
>> guess what graphic card (of which hardware vendor) you are using?

no,
funny, what do you two think is the meaning of the word "ANY",
there is *no guessing*... i'll be happy if anyone EVER mentions
ANY platform that has those drivers, for example his particular
platform or... ANYTHING that is known to WORK... 
any platform, ANY AT ALL, got it?




>> Have you ever heard of "Google"? 
>> Cool down, then think again, then use Google for instance.

thanks, i'll do that... Google, eh?

dont know, 
can you use that "Google" to tell us if there are ANY drivers
for ANY platform at all?  ...in the world? ..any at all? 

we' will go and buy that device, as soon as you can find any, ok?


Oliver, can you HELP US, what say you?



Miniature, Linux based OpenGL development system
http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html






----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Till Oliver Knoll" <oliver.knoll@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  To: "Qt Interest List" <qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Qt and Qtopia Core 4.3 Now Available


  > zeAtShuttle schrieb:
  >> ...
  >> Dimitri, dude?
  > 
  > Hey! Calm down a bit! Your tone is very rude.
  > 
  > Dimitri gave you very *precise* instructions on what to do. Even I would 
  > know what to do, and guess what, I'm not even in your business, I have 
  > no idea what you are trying to implement (some OpenGL related 
  > application obviously). But that does not matter...
  > 
  > Is this so hard to understand: "Find a driver for OpenGL for your 
  > platform/device combination". Have you ever heard of "Google"? Can't you 
  > find the web page of your graphic card vendor? Do you actually *know* 
  > which graphic card you are using?
  > 
  > How would Dimitri know of a link if you say "ANY platform"? Is he to 
  > guess what graphic card (of which hardware vendor) you are using?
  > 
  > Cool down, then think again, then use Google for instance.
  > 
  > Have a nice day, Oliver
  > 
  > --
  > To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
  > List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -- 
  > No virus found in this incoming message.
  > Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
  > 
  > 

Message 15 in thread

On 05.06.07 07:08:16, zeAtShuttle wrote:
> >> Have you ever heard of "Google"? 
> >> Cool down, then think again, then use Google for instance.
> 
> thanks, i'll do that... Google, eh?
> 
> dont know, 
> can you use that "Google" to tell us if there are ANY drivers
> for ANY platform at all?  ...in the world? ..any at all? 

Damn, I must be a real genius, looking for "opengl es" I found

a) the page for the standard
b) Wikipedia entry. The german page has a link at the bottom to an open
source opengl-es implementation. The english page has a link to a page
of supported devices.

There are more links, if none of those doesn't provide enough
information you should ask the people from those pages or ask the Qtopia
team - who use a separate mailinglist.

Andreas

-- 
 [ signature omitted ] 

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