Qt-interest Archive, January 2008
AW: Nokia to acquire Trolltech
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Message 1 in thread
The problem is, even if there will be a branch, it will only help you if you're developing open source software, all the commercial customers will be left out in the rain.
Cheers,
Peter
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: R. Reucher [mailto:rene.reucher@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2008 11:33
> An: qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Betreff: RE: Nokia to acquire Trolltech
>
> If this should ever be needed, I'll be one of the supporters
> of this branch!
> I also think that this is not yet required, but we should
> start to keep an
> eye on it...
>
> On Mon, January 28, 2008 11:26, Scott Aron Bloom wrote:
> > Yes.. I mention the fork.. I happen to call it a branch...
> I sure hope it
> > works out.. but I think the cards are stacked against it.
>
> Regards, René
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 2 in thread
On mandag den 28. Januar 2008, Peter Prade wrote:
> The problem is, even if there will be a branch, it will only help you if
> you're developing open source software, all the commercial customers will
> be left out in the rain.
No. The KDE Free Qt Foundation agreement says that if Trolltech (now Nokia)
ever cuts the GPL version, the foundation has the right to release the latest
GPL version under the BSD license. This means commercial customers will have
the option of using this for free, because the BSD license allows proprietary
development as well as free software development.
Bo.
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: R. Reucher [mailto:rene.reucher@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2008 11:33
> > An: qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Betreff: RE: Nokia to acquire Trolltech
> >
> > If this should ever be needed, I'll be one of the supporters
> > of this branch!
> > I also think that this is not yet required, but we should
> > start to keep an
> > eye on it...
> >
> > On Mon, January 28, 2008 11:26, Scott Aron Bloom wrote:
> > > Yes.. I mention the fork.. I happen to call it a branch...
> >
> > I sure hope it
> >
> > > works out.. but I think the cards are stacked against it.
> >
> > Regards, René
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with
> "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body. List archive and information:
> http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 3 in thread
Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous "poison pill" then.
However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for example by regularly releasing more or less useless updated versions that are plagued by bugs or similar).
Cheers,
Peter
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Bo Thorsen [mailto:bo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Gesendet: Montag, 28. Januar 2008 13:05
> An: qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Peter Prade
> Betreff: Re: AW: Nokia to acquire Trolltech
>
> On mandag den 28. Januar 2008, Peter Prade wrote:
> > The problem is, even if there will be a branch, it will
> only help you if
> > you're developing open source software, all the commercial
> customers will
> > be left out in the rain.
>
> No. The KDE Free Qt Foundation agreement says that if
> Trolltech (now Nokia)
> ever cuts the GPL version, the foundation has the right to
> release the latest
> GPL version under the BSD license. This means commercial
> customers will have
> the option of using this for free, because the BSD license
> allows proprietary
> development as well as free software development.
>
> Bo.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 4 in thread
On 1/28/08, Peter Prade <prade@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous "poison pill" then.
>
> However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for example by regularly releasing more or less useless updated versions that are plagued by bugs or similar).
No, the agreement was drafted so that the foundation gets to decide if
the release is acceptable. It was done to prevent 'spoiler' releases.
Rich.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 5 in thread
Ok so the future of the open source Qt is secured, with the possibility
of Qt being licensed under BSD, if Nokia doesn't keep up open source
support.
BUT: what if they keep up open source support, but drop commercial
licensing?
But as others said, let's wait and see. Hopefully we'll soon get a
statement that addresses the worries that have been stated on this list
(and on the labs blog, and other places).
Cheers,
Peter
Richard Moore wrote:
> On 1/28/08, Peter Prade <prade@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous
> > "poison pill" then.
> > However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for
> > example by regularly releasing more or less useless updated
> > versions that are plagued by bugs or similar).
>
> No, the agreement was drafted so that the foundation gets to decide if
> the release is acceptable. It was done to prevent 'spoiler' releases.
>
> Rich.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 6 in thread
So does the agreement with the KDE Free Qt Foundation say anything about
the individual platforms? If Nokia decides to cease development on
Mac/Windows and only concentrate on Linux/Qtopia, does the KDE
Foundation then have the option to release only those two platforms
under the BSD license?
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Prade [mailto:prade@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:03 AM
To: qt-interest@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: AW: Nokia to acquire Trolltech
Ok so the future of the open source Qt is secured, with the possibility
of Qt being licensed under BSD, if Nokia doesn't keep up open source
support.
BUT: what if they keep up open source support, but drop commercial
licensing?
But as others said, let's wait and see. Hopefully we'll soon get a
statement that addresses the worries that have been stated on this list
(and on the labs blog, and other places).
Cheers,
Peter
Richard Moore wrote:
> On 1/28/08, Peter Prade <prade@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous
> > "poison pill" then.
> > However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for
> > example by regularly releasing more or less useless updated
> > versions that are plagued by bugs or similar).
>
> No, the agreement was drafted so that the foundation gets to decide if
> the release is acceptable. It was done to prevent 'spoiler' releases.
>
> Rich.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 7 in thread
On January 28, 2008 07:46:01 am Joaquin Luna wrote:
> So does the agreement with the KDE Free Qt Foundation say anything about
> the individual platforms? If Nokia decides to cease development on
> Mac/Windows and only concentrate on Linux/Qtopia, does the KDE
> Foundation then have the option to release only those two platforms
> under the BSD license?
Why not read the agreement itself?
http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 8 in thread
On 28 Jan 2008, at 12:10 pm, Peter Prade wrote:
> Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous "poison pill"
> then.
>
> However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for example by
> regularly releasing more or less useless updated versions that are
> plagued by bugs or similar).
The Agreement essentially says that if 12 months go by without an
"Important Release", then they have the right to release it under the
BSD license (and optionally other licenses).
I guess the KDE Free Qt Foundation board -- on which the KDE
representatives win in case of tied vote -- would have to decide what
constitutes an "Important Release", but surely they could reject the
above scenario.
Seems to me that unless you question the intentions of the KDE folks,
Qt's future in the free software world isn't under much threat.
Whether it has a future as a commercially-supported package is
another matter (which I am not going to try and judge); but in the
event that Nokia neglects it, and the free version becomes available
outside the GPL (and therefore usable in proprietary software), some
of the experts here might see an opportunity to expand their own Qt
consulting and support businesses....
JK
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 9 in thread
On January 28, 2008 05:33:06 am Jonathan Kew wrote:
> On 28 Jan 2008, at 12:10 pm, Peter Prade wrote:
> > Hmm, i see, that's great news. That'll be the famous "poison pill"
> > then.
> >
> > However i'm wondering if this can't be circumvented (for example by
> > regularly releasing more or less useless updated versions that are
> > plagued by bugs or similar).
>
> The Agreement essentially says that if 12 months go by without an
> "Important Release", then they have the right to release it under the
> BSD license (and optionally other licenses).
>
> I guess the KDE Free Qt Foundation board -- on which the KDE
> representatives win in case of tied vote -- would have to decide what
> constitutes an "Important Release", but surely they could reject the
> above scenario.
>
> Seems to me that unless you question the intentions of the KDE folks,
> Qt's future in the free software world isn't under much threat.
>
> Whether it has a future as a commercially-supported package is
> another matter (which I am not going to try and judge); but in the
> event that Nokia neglects it, and the free version becomes available
> outside the GPL (and therefore usable in proprietary software), some
> of the experts here might see an opportunity to expand their own Qt
> consulting and support businesses....
(I am speaking for myself, not for my employer, as I'm sure is the case with
pretty much everyone here)
I have been a long time user of Qt since back in the days of 2.x. I have
consistently been impressed and happy with the work that TrollTech has done.
And I believe their agreement with the KDE Free Foundation board was FAR
above and beyond what anyone had the right to expect. I am not saying that
TrollTech is perfect, and I have no experience with Nokia. As a commercial
customer, I have serious concerns about Nokia's long-term plans and how much
of an impact this will have on us.
However, I do believe TrollTech has earned some benefit of the doubt. Heck,
the agreement with the Free Foundation alone should be enough to pay for this
benefit of the doubt.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 10 in thread
On Monday 28 January 2008 12:46:42 Peter Prade wrote:
> The problem is, even if there will be a branch, it will only help you if
> you're developing open source software, all the commercial customers will
> be left out in the rain.
I feel many of the users here are jumping the gun, at least until there is no
detailed information as to what does Nokia intend to change in Trolltech's
operation. For all we know, maybe they decided that on the long term it's
cheaper to buy Trolltech than to pay royalties for 10 million QTopia licenses
and that nothing will change with regard to QT development. Nokia's funding
or required focus might mean faster or slower development of QT and/or QTopia
for the rest of us, so let's not speculate until we have details.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 11 in thread
Nokia is not going to fund development of mobile technologies that
helps their competitors release on other platforms. You can forget
about the WinMobile platform from advancing. You can forget about a
QTopiaJambi solution. QTopia on Linux will probably languish. A Brew
port will never happen. Cross platform is less of a priority. What
Nokia gets is a world class developer toolset. Ever done Symbian
development? It sucks. Replace that with the QTopia framework and
more people will develop for Nokia. It is a flat out better platform
than other mobile development environments.
This does not look good from where I am standing.
M
On Jan 28, 2008, at 5:23 AM, Attila Csipa wrote:
> On Monday 28 January 2008 12:46:42 Peter Prade wrote:
>> The problem is, even if there will be a branch, it will only help
>> you if
>> you're developing open source software, all the commercial
>> customers will
>> be left out in the rain.
>
> I feel many of the users here are jumping the gun, at least until
> there is no
> detailed information as to what does Nokia intend to change in
> Trolltech's
> operation. For all we know, maybe they decided that on the long term
> it's
> cheaper to buy Trolltech than to pay royalties for 10 million QTopia
> licenses
> and that nothing will change with regard to QT development. Nokia's
> funding
> or required focus might mean faster or slower development of QT and/
> or QTopia
> for the rest of us, so let's not speculate until we have details.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
>
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 12 in thread
On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 14:58 -0800, Michael Simpson wrote:
> Nokia is not going to fund development of mobile technologies that
> helps their competitors release on other platforms. You can forget
> about the WinMobile platform from advancing. You can forget about a
> QTopiaJambi solution. QTopia on Linux will probably languish. A Brew
> port will never happen. Cross platform is less of a priority. What
> Nokia gets is a world class developer toolset. Ever done Symbian
> development? It sucks. Replace that with the QTopia framework and
> more people will develop for Nokia. It is a flat out better platform
> than other mobile development environments.
>
> This does not look good from where I am standing.
Yea I'm relatively pissed off myself right now from where I am standing
and I'm seriously considering reverting back to wxWidgets and stop any
and all further use of QT. I mean dammit, I just frigging bought my
commercial license little over a month ago and now THIS?
I'm beginning to regret my purchase as I would not have done it had Inew
known this. There is no way I can warrant introducing QT into my
workplace now and asking my boss to spend money on licenses.
QT is one of the best and most enjoyable API's I have ever used. Why is
it that anything that is actually good has to always be destroyed?
Seriously, you guys at Trolltech have a good product, a good name in the
world out there and the faith of your customers. Don't destroy
that...you'll never get it back.
Stephan
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 13 in thread
QT development came to a halt today. QT is one of the best frameworks
available. Unfortunately, my employer will not allow us to develop
any software that relies on Nokia's benevolence. It appears that we
are now looking at wxWidgets as well. This may well be the best thing
that has happened for wxWidgets.
M
On Jan 28, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Stephan Rose wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 14:58 -0800, Michael Simpson wrote:
>> Nokia is not going to fund development of mobile technologies that
>> helps their competitors release on other platforms. You can forget
>> about the WinMobile platform from advancing. You can forget about a
>> QTopiaJambi solution. QTopia on Linux will probably languish. A
>> Brew
>> port will never happen. Cross platform is less of a priority. What
>> Nokia gets is a world class developer toolset. Ever done Symbian
>> development? It sucks. Replace that with the QTopia framework and
>> more people will develop for Nokia. It is a flat out better platform
>> than other mobile development environments.
>>
>> This does not look good from where I am standing.
>
> Yea I'm relatively pissed off myself right now from where I am
> standing
> and I'm seriously considering reverting back to wxWidgets and stop any
> and all further use of QT. I mean dammit, I just frigging bought my
> commercial license little over a month ago and now THIS?
>
> I'm beginning to regret my purchase as I would not have done it had
> Inew
> known this. There is no way I can warrant introducing QT into my
> workplace now and asking my boss to spend money on licenses.
>
> QT is one of the best and most enjoyable API's I have ever used. Why
> is
> it that anything that is actually good has to always be destroyed?
>
> Seriously, you guys at Trolltech have a good product, a good name in
> the
> world out there and the faith of your customers. Don't destroy
> that...you'll never get it back.
>
> Stephan
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send a mail to qt-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject or the body.
> List archive and information: http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/
>
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 14 in thread
On Tuesday 29 January 2008 09:38, Stephan Rose wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 14:58 -0800, Michael Simpson wrote:
> > Nokia is not going to fund development of mobile technologies that
> > helps their competitors release on other platforms. You can forget
> > about the WinMobile platform from advancing. You can forget about a
> > QTopiaJambi solution. QTopia on Linux will probably languish. A Brew
> > port will never happen. Cross platform is less of a priority. What
> > Nokia gets is a world class developer toolset. Ever done Symbian
> > development? It sucks. Replace that with the QTopia framework and
> > more people will develop for Nokia. It is a flat out better platform
> > than other mobile development environments.
> >
> > This does not look good from where I am standing.
>
> Yea I'm relatively pissed off myself right now from where I am standing
> and I'm seriously considering reverting back to wxWidgets and stop any
> and all further use of QT. I mean dammit, I just frigging bought my
> commercial license little over a month ago and now THIS?
>
> I'm beginning to regret my purchase as I would not have done it had Inew
> known this. There is no way I can warrant introducing QT into my
> workplace now and asking my boss to spend money on licenses.
>
> QT is one of the best and most enjoyable API's I have ever used. Why is
> it that anything that is actually good has to always be destroyed?
Who said anything about destroying Qt/Qtopia?
From the press release:
"Nokia aims to continue the development of Trolltechâs products and support of
new and existing customers. Nokia strives for an open approach to technology
that will encourage and support innovation in the industry, enable fast
adoption of new technologies and advance healthy competition. Nokia embraces
open source technology and will take further the open source development
culture found in Trolltech."
>
> Seriously, you guys at Trolltech have a good product, a good name in the
> world out there and the faith of your customers. Don't destroy
> that...you'll never get it back.
I think a lot of people are jumping the gun here. No one in Trolltech is going
anywhere. You will still be able to deal with your usual sales person, you
usual support person, and your usual community guys, and all of the great and
talented developers we have will still be writing the best cross platform API
out there. You will still be able to freely download all the Trolltech GPL
products from the same cranky ftp server.
Qt and Qtopia development are going to continue.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 15 in thread
I see no reason for everybody to start crying right now.
Actually nothing happens yet.
QT3 is stable and don't require much effort.
If something bad happens with QT and Nokia - one,to,ten firms
will offers independent support for QT product just because
sources is here.
--
[ signature omitted ]
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