Qtopia-interest Archive, September 2006
Re: Concince me to buy you a Greenphone
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Message 1 in thread
On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 11:03:12AM -0500, Bill Gatliff wrote:
> Convince me to buy you a Greenphone. Post a good proposal to this list
> (or URL to thereof), including a description of the application, its
> target audience, and what the market demand would be. Confidential
> submissions are also welcomed. Put some time into it, don't just send
> me ten lines of verbage in an email. If you can do that, then I might
> buy you a phone or two.
>
> Seriously.
Luke Leighton wrote
> hey, dude: that's a damn good idea.
> count me in as being willing to sponsor someone who can't afford to buy
> a QT license plus greenphone, as well - likewise - if you can come up
> with a really good idea.
> conditions for this sponsorship offer are that everything must be
> be open, transparent, and free software - from the initial submission
> right through to the finished product. and, if you're not going to
> actually _do_ the work, after receiving the phone, then i will tell
> everyone, embarrass you greatly and in public, and i will expect the
> phone to be returned and i will make sure it goes to someone else who
> would be more willing to complete a project.
OK here goes.
How about a tide time table.
Useful to anybody near the sea, for fishing, swimming, boating, sailing, etc.
Having a continuelessly up to date time tide time table as close as your phone
would be handy for a number of people.
The trickyest bit would be showing local tide times without the rest of the
worlds tide times. Once it is set up, life should be good.
Coding wise, kmoon would be a good place to start.
OK this is less than ten lines of verbage, and a lot of it can be be done
without a phone, but I am just thowing an idea up at the minute.
What is needed is a web site where people can submit ideas, and other people
can vote on them, and request feature changes, and submit bug reports.
It might be better if people just use http://sourceforge.net/, or similar for
the projects, and have the "Competion web page" contain the wish list and
link to the project that has a "loan phone".
Andrew.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 2 in thread
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 09:56:18AM +1000, Andrew Laughton wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 11:03:12AM -0500, Bill Gatliff wrote:
> > Convince me to buy you a Greenphone. ?Post a good proposal to this list
> > (or URL to thereof), including a description of the application, its
> OK here goes.
> How about a tide time table.
cool!
> Useful to anybody near the sea, for fishing, swimming, boating, sailing, etc.
surfers especially want to know the weather, as well: how high the
waves, what wind direction / speed, what temperature (air and water), etc.
i heard of a web site which tells you all that information, calculates
and predicts ahead for a few days, here in holland, at different beach
locations.
in combination with that roughly-cell-location site, you could even
consider offering the tide/weather/etc. in the local area where you're
located.
ok - dunno if you've seen it but go here:
http://www.fridaynightskate.com/mainf.asp?LangID=2
and then click on 'weather' - on the left hand side, and it will take
you to a page where a small icon, along with the weather radar, is
embedded in the page.
this icon is a _perfect_ size for a 320x240 screen, and it changes
every few seconds to present morning, afternoon, evening and night.
...oh - in amsterdam, of course :)
so yeah - great idea!
l.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 3 in thread
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 09:56:18AM +1000, Andrew Laughton wrote:
> What is needed is a web site where people can submit ideas, and other people
> can vote on them,
bugtracker.
definitely... bugtracker.
trolltech babies: you wanna host it or shall i?
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 4 in thread
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 09:56:18AM +1000, Andrew Laughton wrote:
>
>
>
>>What is needed is a web site where people can submit ideas, and other people
>>can vote on them,
>>
>>
>
> bugtracker.
>
> definitely... bugtracker.
>
>
Are you using that term in a generic sense, or in reference to a
specific software?
I tried to host a wiki once, got hacked real bad. I'm gonna leave that
stuff to someone else. :)
b.g.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 5 in thread
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 09:34:53PM -0500, Bill Gatliff wrote:
> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
> >On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 09:56:18AM +1000, Andrew Laughton wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>What is needed is a web site where people can submit ideas, and other
> >>people can vote on them,
> >>
> >>
> >
> >bugtracker.
> >
> >definitely... bugtracker.
> >
> >
>
> Are you using that term in a generic sense, or in reference to a
> specific software?
specific software. obviously my brain went fzzt trying to remember the
name of the software and i expected everybody to be psychic.
i remembered the name - bugzilla. it has voting n stuff (which i've
never used)
Description: Mozilla bug tracking system
Bugzilla is a web-based tool that lets you:
* report bugs
* assign bugs to the appropriate developers
* prioritize bugs
* set bug dependencies
* arrange bugs by product and component
With these features, you can also use Bugzilla as a
to-do list manager.
.
Bugzilla is a web application that lets users report
and look up existing bugs.
Changes made to a bug's status are automatically
sent to users concerned with it.
or - ah _ha_ - how about this?
http://trac.edgewall.org/
which does both wiki and project tracking (and can use mod_python)
hmmm...
gonna try that out...
> I tried to host a wiki once, got hacked real bad.
shit happens...
> I'm gonna leave that stuff to someone else. :)
:)
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 6 in thread
> > count me in as being willing to sponsor someone who can't afford to buy
> > a QT license plus greenphone, as well - likewise - if you can come up
> > with a really good idea.
Actually, at this moment Ithink about a server-client system, where the client
is on the phone, and the server is located in a house. Via the phone, you can
look around in your house (the house is equipped with webcams), check
whethere there is any problem (like, You are on vacation, or the company sent
you abroad and the alarm went off, so you should check if everything is fine)
Or, the server's webcam can be triggered by motion or noise, so it can also be
used as a baby-wathing device. If there is some unusual happening at the
baby, the phone rings and you are to go. If you are a caring mother? Just a
look at the phone, and you can see the baby is safe and sound. (Of course, it
works via Wifi at home, and GPRS if out of house. The system tries to
minimize communication when using GPRS) The server has a direct connection
to the alarm system, so if it goes on, you will be noticed first. Direct
connection is also made to the house X10 system, so you can turn on or off
air conditioning/heating/air changing devices prior returning to home. (Like
youget home earlier in a winter evening, just a press on your mobile and your
home will wait you nice and warm and fresh since all used air is ventelled
out. So, If you have a lover, the only thing you should so is light the
candles, every other thing is taken care of. Happen to sleep with your lover
and not going home lonely? Just another push on your phone and the house
enters energy-saving mode. Sets down the global house temperature, turns off
unnecesseary devices and so on.
Target audience? A lot of people, who is interested in the safety of there
house and the global environment, including caring mothers.
Phone companies could be also interested, since there is GPRS communications
taken place with the devices, soit is some kind of incomefor them.
This is my idea,
Have fun,
Mulder
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 7 in thread
Imre, NAGY Jr. wrote:
>
>
>>> count me in as being willing to sponsor someone who can't afford to buy
>>> a QT license plus greenphone, as well - likewise - if you can come up
>>> with a really good idea.
>>>
>
> Actually, at this moment Ithink about a server-client system, where the client
> is on the phone, and the server is located in a house. Via the phone, you can
> look around in your house (the house is equipped with webcams), check
> whethere there is any problem (like, You are on vacation, or the company sent
> you abroad and the alarm went off, so you should check if everything is fine)
> Or, the server's webcam can be triggered by motion or noise, so it can also be
> used as a baby-wathing device. If there is some unusual happening at the
> baby, the phone rings and you are to go. If you are a caring mother? Just a
> look at the phone, and you can see the baby is safe and sound. (Of course, it
> works via Wifi at home, and GPRS if out of house. The system tries to
> minimize communication when using GPRS) The server has a direct connection
> to the alarm system, so if it goes on, you will be noticed first. Direct
> connection is also made to the house X10 system, so you can turn on or off
> air conditioning/heating/air changing devices prior returning to home. (Like
> youget home earlier in a winter evening, just a press on your mobile and your
> home will wait you nice and warm and fresh since all used air is ventelled
> out. So, If you have a lover, the only thing you should so is light the
> candles, every other thing is taken care of. Happen to sleep with your lover
> and not going home lonely? Just another push on your phone and the house
> enters energy-saving mode. Sets down the global house temperature, turns off
> unnecesseary devices and so on.
>
> Target audience? A lot of people, who is interested in the safety of there
> house and the global environment, including caring mothers.
> Phone companies could be also interested, since there is GPRS communications
> taken place with the devices, soit is some kind of incomefor them.
>
> This is my idea,
> Have fun,
> Mulder
>
>
I am sure you were not expecting this, but my company has been offering
this in general for the past several years, and actually has several
solutions in this arena, as well as patents regarding this too. Make
sure to do an in-depth technology search before doing the implementation
so you dont make something that infringes. There are tons of players in
this arena out there - it was a mess to wade through just to make sure
our stuff didnt infringe on anyone elses.
--Dave
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 8 in thread
> I am sure you were not expecting this, but my company has been offering
> this in general for the past several years, and actually has several
> solutions in this arena, as well as patents regarding this too. Make
> sure to do an in-depth technology search before doing the implementation
> so you dont make something that infringes.
I kind of expected that. Though, IMHO there is no way to implement any kind of
application without infringing someone's patent. In this world all of the
trivial and mostly common solutions (double click by MS(?), wheel in
Australia, etc) are already patented. This is a silly situation. Just
wondering, by writing an application totally on Qt, using a webcam to watch a
house, how many patents one would hurt?
Sorry for the offtopic,
Mulder, who just wants to make great applications and not want to be
lawyer-feed.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 9 in thread
ok.
patent law is pretty clear - and you should check with a lawyer, but i
believe that any lawyer will advise you of the following;
1) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU CHECK WHETHER THE WORK YOU ARE
DOING INFRINGES ANY PATENTS.
the reason is that penalties are tripled if you are _knowingly_ found to
have infringed a patent
2) it is enshrined into patent law that inventors (i.e. any person)
may implement a patent for 'personal use'.
the reason for this is so that an inventor may 'improve upon' the
original 'invention', and may 'invent' their own new work.
in a free software context, what that effectively means, although it
will piss patent-holders off royally, is that source code may be
distributed freely, used freely and used freely for personal use...
... but not sold, not profited from etc. etc. so what it means is that
whilst you cannot distribute or sell binaries, you _can_ distribute free
software.
3) a patent is only relevant in the country in which it is held.
basically what that means is that if someone holds only a U.S patent,
then anyone who sells, distributes, etc. etc. work that implements that
U.S. patent can tell the U.S. patent holder to go fxxx themselves.
4) a patent infringer may ask the world trade organisation to arbitrate
the process of deciding the patent case and the patent royalties etc. etc.
given that there are only 300 or so people in the world trade
organisation, this effectively kills off the patent case, for the
lifetime of the product.
by the time the WTO gets round to even _looking_ at your case, the
market will have moved on.
so, mr nagy imre (jr) - i don't know what your patents are about, and i
don't give a fxxx, and you can shove your government-sanctioned
cartelling business practices ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
patents where they will no longer harm free software the most.
alternatively, you could do what IBM has done, which is to provide
royalty-free licenses for any implementations of your 'patents' which
are free-software licenses.
and people - myself included - will thank you, greatly (and in my case,
apologise for getting really pissed off that you even _mentioned_
'patents').
just in case you want to threaten anyone with your 'patents' again,
i'm deleting the next few messages in my inbox, so that i can't see any
link between what inspired you to respond.
so that it cannot be said that i ever knowingly infringed any 'patents'.
and i recommend any other free software developers reading
this who are lucky enough to have their inbox listed in
reverse-date-order to do the same, RIGHT now.
l.
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 12:34:09AM +0200, Imre, NAGY Jr. wrote:
> > I am sure you were not expecting this, but my company has been offering
> > this in general for the past several years, and actually has several
> > solutions in this arena, as well as patents regarding this too. Make
> > sure to do an in-depth technology search before doing the implementation
> > so you dont make something that infringes.
>
> I kind of expected that. Though, IMHO there is no way to implement any kind of
> application without infringing someone's patent. In this world all of the
> trivial and mostly common solutions (double click by MS(?), wheel in
> Australia, etc) are already patented. This is a silly situation. Just
> wondering, by writing an application totally on Qt, using a webcam to watch a
> house, how many patents one would hurt?
>
> Sorry for the offtopic,
> Mulder, who just wants to make great applications and not want to be
> lawyer-feed.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send "unsubscribe" in the subject to qtopia-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 10 in thread
2006. szeptember 10. 00.55 dátummal Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton ezt írta:
> 1) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU CHECK WHETHER THE WORK YOU ARE
> DOING INFRINGES ANY PATENTS.
> 2) it is enshrined into patent law that inventors (i.e. any person)
> may implement a patent for 'personal use'.
> 3) a patent is only relevant in the country in which it is held.
> 4) a patent infringer may ask the world trade organisation to arbitrate
> the process of deciding the patent case and the patent royalties etc. etc.
ok.
> so, mr nagy imre (jr) - i don't know what your patents are about, and i
> don't give a fxxx, and you can shove your government-sanctioned
> cartelling business practices ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
> patents where they will no longer harm free software the most.
What the heck? I just don't get it. I just said that I like making GPL
softwares on my own, but IMHO noone can make a software without accidentaly
hurt someone's patent. I did not threaten anyone, I just made an just almost
audible sigh about those stupid patents. Now, here you come waving an axe
above your head and yell at me... how come?
> alternatively, you could do what IBM has done, which is to provide
> royalty-free licenses for any implementations of your 'patents' which
> are free-software licenses.
I did not talk about my patents or my licenses since I have none. I am against
those.
> and people - myself included - will thank you, greatly (and in my case,
> apologise for getting really pissed off that you even _mentioned_
> 'patents').
Sorry, I did not come up with patents in the first time. I have just replied a
previous post.
> just in case you want to threaten anyone with your 'patents' again,
> i'm deleting the next few messages in my inbox, so that i can't see any
> link between what inspired you to respond.
Just in case you did not get the point, I emphasize once more, just for you, I
write it down slowly that you could understand it better: I DID NOT THREAT
ANYONE WITH MY PATENTS since I have none, and as a open source programmer I
am against them. Please, calm down, do not inject ideas not were in my post.
I admit, that you might have a bad day and you are sensitive in some way, but
then kick some sand box or get some FPS game to kick some enemies, but never
ever attack me. I do not like that attitude.
Also, you can delete the letters from your mailbox, but it could be still
found in archives.
> and i recommend any other free software developers reading
> this who are lucky enough to have their inbox listed in
> reverse-date-order to do the same, RIGHT now.
Hopefully we are not yet in a world as dreamed by Geroge Orwell or Kafka.
Mulder
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 11 in thread
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 01:21:24AM +0200, Imre, NAGY Jr. wrote:
> > so, mr nagy imre (jr) - i don't know what your patents are about, and i
> > don't give a fxxx, and you can shove your government-sanctioned
> > cartelling business practices ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
> > patents where they will no longer harm free software the most.
>
> What the heck? I just don't get it. I just said that I like making GPL
> softwares on my own, but IMHO noone can make a software without accidentaly
> hurt someone's patent. I did not threaten anyone, I just made an just almost
> audible sigh about those stupid patents. Now, here you come waving an axe
> above your head and yell at me... how come?
>
> > alternatively, you could do what IBM has done, which is to provide
> > royalty-free licenses for any implementations of your 'patents' which
> > are free-software licenses.
>
> I did not talk about my patents or my licenses since I have none. I am against
> those.
ah whew.
ah many apologies - i saw the words 'patents' and went ballistic - at
the wrong person.
whoever you are, please substitute 'mr nagy imre (jr)' and insert 'your
own name' or 'your company's name'.
my apologies mr imre for thinking it was you.
l.
p.s. i met someone from the european patent office yesterday. i took
the opportunity to thank them for ensuring that software patents are
not possible, in europe, and i specifically mentioned the harm that
software patents would do to free software.
they reassured me that they are working to ensure that software patents
never happen.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 12 in thread
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 11:55:34PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
i _wish_ i'd read my own words before hitting send *sigh*
> 2) it is enshrined into patent law that inventors (i.e. any person)
> may implement a patent for 'personal use'.
>
> ... but not sold, not profited from etc. etc. so what it means is that
> whilst you cannot distribute or sell binaries, you _can_ distribute free
> software.
clarification: you can distribute free software - as _source code_.
in some countries, this sort of thing (distribution of source code)
would actually be protected under laws spouting 'freedom of speech'.
hurrah. aren't we all so happy about that.
> 3) a patent is only relevant in the country in which it is held.
>
> basically what that means is that if someone holds only a U.S patent,
> then anyone who sells, distributes, etc. etc. work that implements that
> U.S. patent can tell the U.S. patent holder to go fxxx themselves.
clarification: obviously if someone sells product _outside_ of the US
then a US patent doesn't apply. but, obviously, if they also have
a european patent (which they can't get - on software. hurrah!)
and you're selling in europe, then you're hosed.
... hey, it's a good job that the world's biggest mobile phone market
is china, isn't it!
> 4) a patent infringer may ask the world trade organisation to arbitrate
> the process of deciding the patent case and the patent royalties etc. etc.
>
> given that there are only 300 or so people in the world trade
> organisation, this effectively kills off the patent case, for the
> lifetime of the product.
clarification: for the _likely_ lifetime of the product - 2 to 3 years.
l.
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 13 in thread
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
> ok.
>
> patent law is pretty clear - and you should check with a lawyer, but i
> believe that any lawyer will advise you of the following;
>
> 1) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU CHECK WHETHER THE WORK YOU ARE
> DOING INFRINGES ANY PATENTS.
>
> the reason is that penalties are tripled if you are _knowingly_ found to
> have infringed a patent
>
LOL... as you say later on, the laws differ for different countries. You
are WAY too reactionary on this front... Anyways, in the US you have to
research the patents in full before applying for one, and the lawyers
grill you over what you could be infringing upon - its an extremely big
issue. The "dont look / dont find" doesnt cut it here in the US. You
just risk getting your patent thrown out if you don't reference
everything you can find, and you risk losing everything you own if you
infringe on a patent - intentionally or not. Going to court and saying
to a judge "I just made it, I never looked to see if it existed already"
doesnt work either. That is even WORSE than not looking - you
automatically lose the case.
Chill out a bit dude... Nobody has threatened ANYONE with any patents.
Any competent programmer out there can write code for something that is
patented and do it in a way that is totally different from the patent
and avoid any issues whatsoever. Foreknowledge is very helpful in this
arena. Research is also very important too - if you are re-inventing
something that exists out there, its helpful to know your competition too.
--Dave
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 14 in thread
On Sat, Sep 09, 2006 at 08:23:57PM -0400, David Somner wrote:
>
>
> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> >
> >ok.
> >
> >patent law is pretty clear - and you should check with a lawyer, but i
> >believe that any lawyer will advise you of the following;
> >
> >1) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU CHECK WHETHER THE WORK YOU ARE
> >DOING INFRINGES ANY PATENTS.
> >
> >the reason is that penalties are tripled if you are _knowingly_ found to
> >have infringed a patent
> >
> LOL...
*whistle*, *looks sideways and round in the air*...
> as you say later on, the laws differ for different countries. You
> are WAY too reactionary on this front... Anyways, in the US you have to
> research the patents in full before applying for one, and the lawyers
> grill
... see - lawyers - what lawyers? no free software developer is going
to afford a patent lawyer: if they did ever apply for a patent it would
be to simply submit whatever they could write, in order to not spend
the money.
[not everybody is a nikolai tesla]
> to a judge "I just made it, I never looked to see if it existed already"
> doesnt work either. That is even WORSE than not looking - you
> automatically lose the case.
ok - in the uk, you apply first (free), and pay (in stages) later - and
you've got a year before you need to pay for the 'searches'.
the searches are carried out by the patent office itself.
_if_ you get a lawyer, it's _his_ job to also do the same searches
before-hand, and to advise you 'this is very similar to an existing
patent NNNNNNN, but if you make this change MMMMMMM then it is
sufficiently different such that my opinion is that a patent war will
be easily avoidable: will that change MMMMMM actually work and will
the invention still do the job, in your technical opinion?'
so you end up working together _with_ your patent lawyer, you re-file a
changed version of the patent, and the clock is reset for one year.
... but of course, free software developers can't _afford_ that luxury.
> Chill out a bit dude...
*sigh* i would, if this wasn't so serious, believe me.
you should see what i wrote on the WIPO web site when there were
comments requested for how to 'move forward' on 'world intellectual
property'.
they had to remove it from the public web site.
i told them that their job should be to ensure that information
is unrestricted - that nobody has the right to 'own' intelligence,
and that their continued support of 'intelligence ownership rights'
is effectively legalised slavery, and throttling humanity's advancement.
but with judiciously-used swearwords interspersed.
> Nobody has threatened ANYONE with any patents.
yet.
> Any competent programmer out there can write code for something that is
> patented and do it in a way that is totally different from the patent
> and avoid any issues whatsoever.
unfortunately, we know that that doesn't help, because the patent
holder will threaten _anyway_, as it 'may be too similar'.
the slightest risk that it's similar to an existing invention...
--
[ signature omitted ]
Message 15 in thread
could someone please do me a favour and summarise - _without_ mentioning
any patents, or giving any clue as to what material was being discussed
as patented - over the last 5-or-6-or-so messages to this list?
much appreciated.
On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 12:34:09AM +0200, Imre, NAGY Jr. wrote:
> > I am sure you were not expecting this, but my company has been offering
> > this in general for the past several years, and actually has several
> > solutions in this arena, as well as patents regarding this too. Make
> > sure to do an in-depth technology search before doing the implementation
> > so you dont make something that infringes.
>
> I kind of expected that. Though, IMHO there is no way to implement any kind of
> application without infringing someone's patent. In this world all of the
> trivial and mostly common solutions (double click by MS(?), wheel in
> Australia, etc) are already patented. This is a silly situation. Just
> wondering, by writing an application totally on Qt, using a webcam to watch a
> house, how many patents one would hurt?
>
> Sorry for the offtopic,
> Mulder, who just wants to make great applications and not want to be
> lawyer-feed.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe - send "unsubscribe" in the subject to qtopia-interest-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
--
[ signature omitted ]
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